How to Build Smarter Discovery Questions With Buyer Signals

James Buckley: 00:00

Welcome back, everybody, to the Sell Better Daily Sales Show, where we bring you daily sales advice to help you sell better. Jonathan, 10 days a week, I love it. We're here to talk a lot about building smarter discovery questions, and I think we struggle with discovery right now, there's so much change happening, but signals are still very strong, so we're gonna talk a lot about that. I got a legend in the room with me that you've probably never heard of. Behoff is what he goes by, so if you reach out to him on LinkedIn, make sure that you reference Behoff. Because he will know that it came from this particular show, or internally. That's what they call him over there at ZoomInfo. He is the SMB Outbound Sales Development Manager. This is his first Sell Better show, so everyone give him a warm welcome. Welcome to the show, Brendan.

Brendan Hofferty: 00:41

Thank you, thank you.

James Buckley: 00:42

It's a good time right here. Scan this QR code, check us out, sellbetter.xyz, that's why we do this, it's for you, for the people on the front lines doing the job every day. You guys know the deal. Jump over to the YouTube channel and subscribe. That's what you want to do to get the latest tips, techniques, tactics, and takeaways. Shout out to our friends at ZoomInfo. You see the red? I'm in the red zone. I love repping ZoomInfo, one of our number one partners, been with us for a long time. If you are already using ChatGP… you know what? Are you using ChatGPT for prospecting right now? Put a one in the chat, if that's you. If you're using ChatGPT for any kind of prospecting flows, research, hey, what can you tell me about this person or this company? Drop a one in the chat. If you are doing this, this is going to be interesting for you. ZoomInfo has built an integration that pulls verified B2B contact information, company info, buyer intent signals directly into ChatGPT. So, instead of, like, piecing it all together from tabs and websites, you can build lists.

James Buckley: 01:38

research accounts and prep outreach all in one location with ZoomInfo. This is 100% free to try, so we're gonna drop the link in the chat. Everybody that dropped a one, or, you know, if you're using Claude. I understand, but you're probably missing out using ChatGPT for other things. I would encourage you to grab this resource and start using this to see what it does for you. Let's kick things off proper. Alright, the questions that surface real urgency. We have talked about urgency before. You cannot create it. You can uncover it, you can surface it, you can discover it, and then you can press it once that happens. But you can't…create it within someone. So we're gonna talk about that, and the difference between real urgency and surface-level pain. We're gonna talk about mapping the buying committee. This is a reoccurring theme, we have to know who's making the decisions. We're gonna talk about what that looks like right now, and the tools, and the things that we're using to do this. And then, of course, what discovery approaches are actually landing today. Y'all are gonna get a lot of good discovery value out of this particular show. So let's get into it!

James Buckley: 02:36

This is where I want to start, because this, I think, is where most reps get fooled. They think they have to find this pain, but then they find all of this, you know, polite…people out there that are afraid to say no to them, and they end up taking meetings, and they think they're doing something valuable, but this is about the difference in, like, numbers and quality, right? We've changed quite a bit. Brendan, break this down for everybody.

Brendan Hofferty: 03:03

Yeah, absolutely. So, I think it's all about finding what the individual actually cares about, right? So, when you're going, and I teach my SDRs when you're pitching ZoomInfo, right? Instead of, you know, you pitching in an ocean, you're actually fishing in a barrel, right? You're trying to get all the people that are raising their hand, saying hello, saying, hey, I'm interested in your product, and then finding out what you can actually do to help them discover what services that they are providing to us.

James Buckley: 03:28

And you say the best opportunities aren't hidden in the crowd, they're already raising their hand, and we're going to talk a lot about intent signals and how to use them throughout the show. What are you… what's… what's surfacing those up these days to people? Is it something that we're seeing happen in engines and agents and all these things? Or are there products out there that people are being very dependent on at the moment?

Brendan Hofferty: 03:51

Yeah, I think one of the… I mean, the product that we sell is ZoomInfo, right? So we're able to see when someone is actively looking on a website or searching something on Google with our partnership with Google or Microsoft, and then it's basically, you know, trying to handle those signals and get in front of the right people at the right time. So, when you see someone that is searching for, you know, commercial printing, and then you can go and give them a call with the ZoomInfo data. and be able to have their cell phone number, email address ready to go, and reach out to them while they're actually in the market for the services that you provide. That way, you can get them while the iron's hot, so to speak, and target them when they're actually in your market today.

James Buckley: 04:28

Striking while the iron's hot is probably the top SDR skill to develop in the modern age. That said, I'm gonna launch this question. Who are you? Are you an account executive? Are you an SDR? I ask this question frequently, because we're seeing a lot of account executives being asked to prospect more than ever before. Products like ZoomInfo and many others are becoming more and more relevant to these full-cycle reps that came out as an SDR… as an AE, and they were gonna close, and marketing was going to provide them with leads. And they were gonna get meetings booked automatically and start doing demos, and now they're being asked to go do the cold calling, go do the reach out. I noticed a couple of things about your language when we were planning for this call, and you opened with a how question. I always talk about the best question to open with when you finally get someone to connect on a call. And you ask people how they're doing things.

James Buckley: 05:13

My reasoning for this, the way that my brain works, is that it can't be answered very quickly. I can't get the brush-off answer. Oh, yeah, whatever, right? I have to get a, well, we do the following, or actually we use this, right? And, like, that's a well-thought-out answer. So talk to me about how the how question has become a better opener than the closed yes or no questions.

Brendan Hofferty: 05:32

Yeah, especially when cold calling, right? You want to win the first 10 seconds of the call. So, what a lot of my young SDRs do is they say, like, hey, are you familiar with ZoomInfo? And I teach them, like, hey, you're gonna get either a, yes, I am familiar, or most of the time you're gonna get a, no, not at all. You get a one-word answer. And that's what you want to avoid in the first 10 to 30 seconds of the call. So, a way better question to ask is, hey, how familiar are you with ZoomInfo? Right? And then you can go on to, yeah, they're familiar, no, they're not. It opens you to pitch either way. And then they also would say, hey, like, are you generating new business? Are you taking on new business at the moment? Again, you're gonna get a quick, yes, I am, or no, I'm not. So the question should be, how are you currently generating new business at the moment? Trying to get them to open up, and then find more discovery for the way the conversation's gonna flow after that.

James Buckley: 06:21

I do like this. We're gonna talk a lot about language throughout the show. I used to ask. you know Salesforce, right? And I would get, oh yeah, we use it every day. Or I'd get, well, I used to use it at my other company, but I don't use it here. And because I was selling a product that it was required that you use Salesforce. So instead of saying, do you use Salesforce, which is an obvious discovery question, I'd be like, oh, you know Salesforce, very casual. And, oh yeah, I use it every day. It was a very voluntary thing. So how you word things really matters in the opener. Check it out, BDR's heavy in the room, 25%, but as I produce. addicted. 38% account executives, and that is because, man, like. They're prospecting every day, they have no choice but to fill their own funnels and make up the difference, because so much is changing. Nobody's… a lot of people are not spending money right now, so we have to push harder, we have to be more creative, we have to create more quality messaging. Alright, we're back to language here, and I want to lean into this, because when you get served up a buying signal. We use it in our opener, whether it's in an email, or in a social message, or even, like.

James Buckley: 07:19

on a call when we're calling right away. Even something as simple as a form can come out the wrong way if you're accusatory, and we do this all the time. Drop a 2 in the chat if you've sent emails that start with, I saw that you, I noticed you, you are this title. Right? Be honest, I do this all the time, and now I'm catching myself being accused. Am I really telling this person what their title is? Brendan, how do we… how do we break this? What do we do about this problem?

Brendan Hofferty: 07:47

Yeah, I mean, when you're getting vague answers from people, right, or being accusatory, like, I think it's… you don't want to push whatever that is that you're saying, it's them. You want to get more curious, right? So I teach my reps, instead of saying, hey, I saw you were on our website on our pricing page, I like to teach them, hey, I saw some website activity coming over from your domain. I saw that you were, you know, the director of sales over here, and typically that means, you know, they have sales reps or accounting executives that are looking for better contact information, or looking for specific signals on the ZoomInfo website. Like, not sure if that was you, but obviously, this would be important to hear, and then you go on for your pitch that way. So it starts an actual conversation rather than, I saw you were on the website, I saw you were on the pricing page, XYZ, and even if they are sometimes, they might just tell you, no, that wasn't me. Maybe they forgot, maybe they were doing two things at once. But you don't want to tell them that they were doing something just in the off chance that they didn't remember or they actually weren't.

James Buckley: 08:41

I get into this problem a lot, and it's… I think it's because we want to appear to be the subject matter expert to our cold prospects, so we start telling them. And I say this often, we've…We've converted, right? We used to be in the tell-me world, and then we were in the show-me world, and now we're kind of in the give-it-to-me world, right? But that means that even less words need to be getting used in our messaging, even when we're speaking to people, because it's just distracting. So here's my tip. Right? If you look at your writing, and you see the I saw, I noticed, and you're using those signals, pump that into your AI solution of your choice, and just ask it to remove unnecessary words. That's it. As simple as that. Look at what you have, and you're gonna find a lot of your words were unnecessary. I do this often, it helps me a lot, and it's really helped me be more concise with my message. Two things that I want to clock here. First, Brendan opens with a how, we talked about that.

James Buckley: 09:39

how are you going to market right now? And that forces a thought. But second, when he hit that signal moment, he made a statement instead of asking a question. He didn't just straight out ask. So I really like that flow. Can you break that down a little more for us, Brandon?

Brendan Hofferty: 09:54

Yeah, I think it's just, like, you're asking them exactly what it is that they are looking to get out of things. You're not saying, hey, I, you know, I saw XYZ, or whatever. You're asking them, what is it that the pain that they're trying to get away from the conversation? What is it that they're looking to get out of whatever product that they're searching for? And then you can go and have a conversation with them, answer whatever questions they have. And follow it along however that conversation might go.

James Buckley: 10:21

Good answer. I got a good question here, and I want to park it for Arturo Pereira. I think I said your last name right, forgive me if I butchered it. It says, when we are discussing AEs needing to source some of their own ops, I worked in orgs that expected AEs to prospect 50-20% ops for their patch. This is what I have experienced. I wondered what your audience would say about that current expectation. In your experience, what are full-cycle reps expected to source themselves? I've seen upwards of 30%. Have you seen that?

Brendan Hofferty: 10:53

Yeah, I think they're trying to make account executives at ZoomInfo be prospecting a lot more, right? Because SDRs are doing a good job prospecting and searching people that are on our website, but account executives also know, like, what kind of deals that they want to individually close, so I would say, absolutely, prospecting is going to continue to go up in the AE org, for sure.

James Buckley: 11:14

I cannot see how a… I cannot see how an organization would not be telling their account executives that they should be prospecting. Not only that, but I can't see an account executive not prospecting on their own at this point. We all know that the ones we source ourselves have the best fit, they often have the closest relationships, it's easier to get traction Those are the ones we're most invested in, we care about the most. We're a little less skeptical of them, so I always feel like an account executive should definitely be doing that. I want to stay on the urgency thing. Because there's something that you talked about that makes a lot of sense to me. There's organizational urgency. Right? And then there's… that's like the company has a problem, but then there's the personal…

James Buckley: 11:59

part of it, right? And I think this is the part that makes a buyer actually buy something, because we can pitch something about the company all day, but that doesn't mean that the person we're talking to cares about it, even though they should, nobody's arguing that. So talk to me about how you're teaching your reps to find that personal pain so that they can drive momentum.

Brendan Hofferty: 12:19

Yeah, absolutely. When you're taking on a tech stack like ZoomInfo, right, obviously that's going to be company-wide, and there's going to be multiple different sectors of the company that would use the product. But the bigger thing is, is when you're actually making the cold call and making the pitch, you wanted to pitch to the persona that you're actually calling, right? So a VP of sales is going to care about pipeline, a director of marketing is going to care about attribution and lead quality, a CEO is going to care about revenue growth and efficiency. So, you're gonna change the conversation that you're having slightly based on the individual that you're actually speaking to, and making sure that you're talking about something that they care about. Because if you don't end up doing that, what's gonna happen is when you're calling a CEO, and you're bringing XYZ up, and it doesn't matter to them, or same thing with vice president of sales, they're gonna say, oh, I'm not the right person. Go call XYZ, or oh, go talk to this person. And you're gonna end up just having a loophole of referrals to go around and around and around in, rather than actually making a point that they are the person that would be in charge of this, and it does actually matter to them.

James Buckley: 13:19

And, you know, just to sort of highlight the impact that talking about their personal… their achievements and the things that they might be held accountable for, do you get that far into it? So I have this question. This is a good discovery question for everybody that's in here thinking, oh, I can't wait to get all these questions. Here's a good one. Let's say this goes well, and you guys end up moving forward with us. This is probably a latter… a later question to ask. Who's gonna have their toes held over the fire? for this. Who's gonna be held accountable for the success of this thing? Oftentimes, that's the person that you need to build the strongest relationship with, because they're going to be the key to saying, I'm confident about this, right? And champions are not always the best sellers internally. Let's say a few more things about that. Do you have any questions that, you know, really dial in the decision, the signer versus the champion?

Brendan Hofferty: 14:11

Yeah, I think it's, again, doing some research before you're actually giving the call, right? So, the ZoomInfo platform, we typically know who we're calling, right? And their titles are correct, and we know who we're gonna reach out to. So, going into that conversation before actually making that physical dial, you're gonna be knowing what your pitch should relatively be based on if you're gonna call the CEO, or vice president, or director of marketing, right? But then asking them questions of, like, do you typically find your team having low-quality leads at the moment? Like, how are you… what types of sales tools are you currently utilizing to make sure that your reps are spending less time prospecting and more time actually making the calls? So you're gonna dig into, like, what they individually care about, or the people underneath them care about, and then pair that with whatever it is that you're gonna pitch at the end of the day.

James Buckley: 14:59

There is a matchup game that we have to play, right? There is the thing that we are selling to the company, right? But then there's the thing we're selling to each of our stakeholders' agendas. And I think great salespeople, we tend to multi-thread at the company pain level. And we tend to multi-thread at the personal level. And what I mean there is, if you're talking about the company paying, talking about reviews after group calls, etc, they should go out to the group. But then separately, behind the scenes, away from the group, you're reaching out to the individuals. and you're saying, hey, I noticed on the call you said this. I want to talk more about that. When can we get 15 minutes so that I can show you how that impacts what you're concerned with specifically, right? This is going to get everyone in the room, when they're talking about whether or not they're going to move forward, going, here, here, I want to go with Brendan. He's been really great to work with. So that's a good, that's a good move. Any other magic things that you can think of before we move on to, like.

James Buckley: 15:57

What 3 things should people walk away with every time?

Brendan Hofferty: 16:00

Yeah, no, I'm trying to think of the other… I mean, just making sure, again, that you make it super relevant to them. If you have a VP of sales that is gonna be the final decision maker, and that does sometimes happen too, right? It's like, sometimes the CEO will say, hey, my VP of sales is the one that's gonna end up making this decision, he's the one that you're gonna have to win over. So, yes, you want to talk and make sure the CEO knows that their ROI behind the investment is gonna matter, but then you're going to heavy focus on what that VP of Sales is gonna care about, which is that overall revenue growth, which is having his SDRs have accurate contact information and making sure that their pipeline continues to go up. So, focusing on exactly what that individual cares about and winning over the final decision maker, obviously, is gonna be the number one priority.

James Buckley: 16:46

Yeah, you gotta impress your champion, but you gotta really impress the signer. I mean, that… that is… the economic buyer is the one to focus on, for sure. Luis Sarabia, I really like this question. Guys, do me a favor, don't drop questions like Luis's here in the chat. They're gonna get buried. Can you throw them in the Q&A for me? I want to leave time at the end so that Brendan and I can answer as many questions as possible. Right now, I want to highlight this. There are people in the room that have been in sales for less than a year, a year, two years, but there are also people in the room that have been doing this job for 30 years. This was something that I think everyone will take something away from. You need to get these from every call that you have that's qualified. Brendan, how'd you back into these three things, and is there a magic sweet spot where two of three is the best combination? Or is it just like, yo, I only need the one? I need the meeting, the referral, or more information, and that's gonna serve me well?

Brendan Hofferty: 17:37

Yeah, I think based on who you're calling, there's the best case scenario for each of these, right? So, if you're an SDR, obviously the number one priority is getting a good qualified meeting, right? Making sure that you're calling someone with a higher title that wants to actually meet. For us, we like Director Plus at ZoomInfo, we do call some manager titles as well, but getting a good high-level title in for the meeting is number one priority. priority. But that's not always gonna happen. You're gonna make your 100-plus calls every single day, and you're not gonna book a meeting every time you speak to someone. But that's priority one. If you're gonna get any other two things out of a conversation, the number two thing would be a good referral. Hey, who can I reach out to at the company that would be the right person to speak to? And typically, overheads and Info, because we have the org charts, you can… you don't have to always ask them exactly who it is that you should reach out to, you can say, hey, I noticed that you

Brendan Hofferty: 18:33

might report to John Smith, or your Director of Sales, whoever it is. Oh, I see you work with XYZ. So you bring that person up, first and last name, and you can actually show that you know who they are and what their title is, and be able to have that conversation with them where they're like, oh yeah, that would be the right person to talk to. You're talking yourself into a referral, even if they didn't give it to you, because we all know that, hey, if you ask someone for a referral, they're typically going to say, hey, I don't want to give out John Smith's information. You can call him, but I don't want to give it out. And then lastly, if you do end up connecting with an account executive or someone that might not have the buying power that you might want, or they actually are not involved in the sales process in any way. It's getting more information from them. Hey, while I have you on the phone, do you mind me asking, like, what is the tech stack that you currently utilize? Or if you're talking to an account executive, hey, how are you currently prospecting right now? Like, what sales tools are you using? What methods are? And then that way, you can write down those notes, and when you go call their director of sales, you can say, hey, I just spoke to so-and-so. They told me they were struggling with

Brendan Hofferty: 19:32

finding accurate phone numbers and email addresses. They said they were spending 5-plus hours a day trying to find the right person to call and find out who's in their market. That's all information you can leverage in the conversation when you're calling that next person when you multi-thread.

James Buckley: 19:46

Alright, so first of all, it's a ninja move, but it seems obvious. Here's why it's not, you guys. You're probably like me, in the sense that when you have a good thing going with somebody on a call that tells you that they work with your decision maker that you're trying to get in touch with, I have this bad habit where I'll be like, hey, is it cool if I mention that we talked? Brendan does not do this. he simply says, thank you for the information, lets them go. No ask, because they're not the decision maker. But then he goes and uses that information in a very positive way. Hey, I spoke with Luis, and he said the following things. He said this, this, and this. We should probably talk about that, because… and there's your reason for reaching out. Now, I wanna… I wanna ask you this, Brendan, and you guys can let me know if this happens to you in the chat. How often does somebody that you're reaching out to with that information tell you to stop talking to their front lines? Is it frequent?

Brendan Hofferty: 20:34

No, it really isn't. I very little get pushback on that, right? If you say you had a good conversation, and you can mention, hey, like, I'm doing outbound cold calls, they didn't come to me, I went to them, and basically just got some information, like, very, very little time are you gonna get any pushback on that. You can definitely add some fluff to the conversation of, hey, they were interested, XYZ. But typically, unless you're making a fake CEO referral, then you're not gonna have any pushback on that whatsoever.

James Buckley: 21:03

I ask that question because it's amazing to me how often salespeople make up reasons not to do the thing. Right? And our thought, my thought many times has been, well, I hope this person doesn't get mad that I spent, you know, 30 minutes with their frontline person asking 20 questions about their tech stack and their flows. You know, and I think we think about that stuff because we don't want to shoot our deal in the foot before we have a chance to have a good conversation. It's just fear. It's just something you're thinking in your head that could potentially thwart you from ever getting close to getting that conversation going. Let's answer Luis Sarabia's question. I really like this question. I am an AE for a staffing firm. What discovery questions can I use when clients are saying that they're not hiring right now? I think this is a two-fold question. Luis, you're speaking about it specifically from a recruiting and staffing firm. But many companies are saying they're not spending right now. If somebody's not hiring and you're in staffing, or if somebody's not spending and you're in sales, what would you say? What's the comeback there, Brendan?

Brendan Hofferty: 22:01

Yeah, I like to ask them, like, hey, you don't sound like someone that likes to procrastinate, and I also don't believe you're someone that likes to wait for the well to run dry. what's your plan coming in the next 3 to 6 months if business isn't picking up the way it is right now? Or, hey, you're not taking on any individuals right now, what's gonna happen in the next 3 to 6 months when you do need to take on these people? So finding out what their game plan is, and then for someone like ZoomInfo, it's just all about having that intro-level conversation. We're not necessarily pitching the idea of ZoomInfo every time. We're pitching the idea of a 10 to 15 minute conversation that we can have to set you up for the future, right? So that's what I teach my SDRs, is you don't have to pitch the whole product, you don't have to sell the deal. Sell the idea of a 10-minute to 15 minute conversation where we can explain to you how we can help you out, and it might not be a deal today, we might not get it done overnight, but there's process that can be made in the near future that we know, hey, this is going to be a good fit. In maybe the next month or so.

James Buckley: 22:59

You know, when you're using signals, you've got to use the right ones to be able to set the right stages, right? Set the right tasks. For me, I have a little agent, a little skill that I built in Claude, where it says, you know, this company is unlikely to close for the following reasons. So, for that, I put it a little further down on my priority list. The ones that have a high likelihood, because the signal is strong, those are the ones I tend to prioritize. So I think we can… and we can, obviously, if somebody's, like, early stage or whatever, you know, no funding yet, they haven't raised, right? You can set a task that says, check back in 6 months, or check back in 3 months. Right? And then you come back to them brand new, with a good signal, and some growth signals that actually make sense for the company. We talked about the org chart, and I think this is an important question. I talked about mentioning the people that we should invite to the call very early. I do this often because I want to bring my leadership into the call early. How are you using ZoomInfo's org chart to build this committee while you're on the phone? I feel like this is one of those things I'd be scrambling to do.

James Buckley: 23:57

while I'm trying to do discovery at the same time.

Brendan Hofferty: 24:00

Yeah, I think it's, again, you… I always like to start from the highest point for it, right? So, if you go and you talk to a CEO, you try to pitch them, and then typically, if you're not able to get them on the phone, maybe they're too busy, maybe they're on vacation, maybe they're like, hey, I pass all this off to my director of marketing or my director of sales. At least that way you get a CEO referral, right? The higher level of referral you get as possible is always the best answer, but then taking the org chart and then going from top to bottom, right? So you go from your CEO to your director of sales. Director of sales says, hey, no, this is not something I'm interested in, then you go to the next level down. Hey, I just had a great conversation with your director of sales, John. You know, he told me this, this, and this.

Brendan Hofferty: 24:38

this is why I believe ZoomInfo would be a great fit for your individual company. So, focusing on, especially, like, decision-making titles, but also not getting, you know, tricked when a lower-level individual says, hey, I do have buying power, when they probably actually don't, right? Typically, there's gonna be one, two, or maybe three people that actually have the buying power, especially at these lower SMB companies. And you want to be careful that you… you're not talking to just a champion that's not going to be able to do anything about it, rather than a decision maker that will actually have that buying power.

James Buckley: 25:11

Not bad, that's good. So I have a little bit of a slightly different mentality and approach to deal with for you, Luis. If you're not hiring right now, if you work for a staffing firm and somebody says, oh, we're not hiring right now, the question is, is the company not growing? Is the company you know, failing. You can't ask that question in such a negative way, obviously, so what you want to say is, why? Right? You need the why, but also, you can say something like. Hey, that's why I'm calling. That's why I'm reaching out. Many companies are not hiring right now, and I'm collecting reasons why. Do you have a second so that we can talk about what happened to the jobs that you had posted, and why they're not available now? Right? This is your discovery moment. Right? So, the reason why you're like, they're not hiring, what do I say, is because you're still focused on selling.

James Buckley: 25:58

you have to be focused on discovery, and the discovery is what leads us to the doorway to be focused on selling. So, Luis, I would try those approaches, the ones that Brendan gave you, even the simpler ones that I gave you. Give that a shot and see if it works. A/B test all those things, and see which one comes back well. So I'm gonna steal a lot of the things that you've given me here, Brendan, but I want to talk about the person that, has this, like, look you dead in the eye. and says, I'm the only decision maker here. I think I hear this a lot, but it's so rarely true. Do you have a lot of, like, you know, chest pump dudes, and people that are like, you know, I'm the person, and then you find out later, after you get far enough down the funnel, oh, I have to go send this up for approval?

Brendan Hofferty: 26:43

All the time. All the time, yeah. There's always gonna be the people that I am the end-all, be-all, and then you can go and call someone else, and they actually can make the same decision that they actually would. So, it's always good to be wary of that. It's good to take the org charts. If there's someone with the same exact title as the person that you already spoke to, typically, someone else can make that final decision as well. So I think…Yeah, like, that's… that's not an always… there's not typically one person that's gonna make the final decision every single time.

James Buckley: 27:13

You know what it always reminds me of? Is I used to do a lot of events. I've done a lot of in-person events, I worked a lot of booths in my time. And it really has an interesting effect when you meet somebody at a booth in person while they're wearing their suit and tie. And they're soup, man, they're, like, in front of you. Yeah, we're gonna buy, I want 46 seats, I got… I got 50 reps there just waiting for something like this. This happens a lot at booths when you're doing demos at conferences. Then when you get back to your desk and you follow up with this person, you find out they're, like, a director of your… they're, like, a regional director of, like, a…small cell in the con… right? And the idea here is that they give you this impression that they're capable of making a decision, but through your process, you find out that it's not actually them. And this is why you should know before you dial. Let's talk a little bit about this, because you hear it all the time, I'm the decision maker, just send it to me. How… how do we navigate this with a little more effectiveness?

Brendan Hofferty: 28:10

Yeah, I think it's using the tools you have in front of you to make sure you have the most information possible before actually making that dial. Luckily, ZoomInfo, like, we're gonna know who exactly we're calling, we're gonna know their title, we're gonna know, like, different information based on the company of what they actually care about, and then pairing that with AI, which ZoomInfo has Copilot, where we can use first- and third-party data to actually take some of the notes we had in our CRM, along with some of the notes that we've gathered externally, and be able to put that all into an easy-level conversation where you can ask specific questions we probably already know the answer to. So it's taking one step at a time, calling the specific person that we know the information about, and then asking questions that's going to lead us to a better conversation.

James Buckley: 28:52

That's actually a really great segue into the question we just got asked by Luis again. What questions do you use to confirm if your contact person is the decision maker, or if they're just bluffing? Luis, I'll give you the one I do. Hey, what happened the last time you tried to buy something like this? That is the best question. Because if they can't answer that question, they've never tried to buy something like this. Brendan, do you have a question that identifies this person?

Brendan Hofferty: 29:20

Well, it's usually when you're wrapping up the conversation, and you're getting the invite sent out from ISDRs, and they try to ask, like, hey, is there anyone else that would have to be involved to make this happen? Is there anyone else we need to loop in to have a conversation with? And then if they say, like, nope, absolutely not, like, I'm the end-all be-all, like, again, sometimes you can know, based on their title and how that conversation went, that they are the guy, but then if they're like, oh, yeah, we might want to get X XYZ person in here. Then you know, hey, they're probably gonna have to run that by them, to make sure that it's gonna be a done deal if that ends up happening.

James Buckley: 29:53

Yeah, I agree. I think that most people that have that bravado about them, the bravado itself is an indication that they might be blowing smoke up their own rear end, you know? You gotta be cautious with people. Their egos play a big role in the modern buying and selling game, and that works on both ends. You know, don't let your ego think, this is a deal that I've got in the bag. You have no idea what's happening on the back end. So, great question from Luis right there. Keep the questions coming. I love good questions. I'm gonna leave some time at the end to answer as many as we get, so don't be afraid. If you have questions about your own, discovery and the things you're asking, if you want to know about a question you're asking and you're like, Brendan, would you ask this question? Throw it in the Q&A, we'll definitely cover it. Let's keep moving forward, though. Now, this is part of…The language piece that I told you I'm a big fan of. For those of you that are following me for many years now, you know that I am a language fanatic. I love language. I speak a little bit of a lot of different languages, which is so fun.

James Buckley: 30:47

I had this really good habit where, again, I had… I was selling something that helped people get their data into Salesforce a long time ago, and instead of asking… when they would say to me, I can't get my reps to update Salesforce. I would, because I was talking to a Salesforce admin, I would make it specific to them. And this is the personal part. I would say, it sounds like you might be having a reporting problem. And they would unload, oh my gosh, I can't report on this, these fields are getting filled out with paragraphs, it's impossible for me to pull, blah blah blah. This was me taking something that they complained about and turning it into something… at a company level, and turning it into something that affected them at a personal level. And I could hear the emotion in this, and that's what usually helped me to get my momentum. Thoughts on that, and anything you might do that's similar to this, Brendan?

Brendan Hofferty: 31:35

Yeah, I love painting a picture in the prospect's head and making it something super relevant to them. So, at ZoomInfo, we pitch intent. That's our number one feature, that's the thing that's gonna have us win deals. And what I used to do is I used to explain it kind of vague, hey, we can just show you people looking for your XYZ services. And, like, yeah, like, most people get it, I booked meetings from it, sure, but it didn't really click in people's heads until I started phrasing it in a different way. So now when I have my SDRs pitching 10, and what I did on the phones as well, I said, hey James, you know when you're looking for a new pair of shoes online, and then you see that same pairs of shoes on Facebook, Instagram, etc? We actually do that on a business-to-business level, so when someone's actively looking for your cybersecurity services, we can actually see that, and then pair that with cell phone numbers and email addresses to reach out to the buyer at the right time.

Brendan Hofferty: 32:23

And everyone here, I guarantee you, is experienced. You go on Google, you go search something, and then you go on Instagram or Facebook, and you have the same exact ad for it everywhere. And everyone gets it, so they understand that's exactly what's happening, and what we do, and what we sell.

James Buckley: 32:39

You know, signals have been around a long time, but intent is something very different now, and I remember when they were kind of considered to be one and the same thing. everybody thought a signal meant intent. Now, a signal can be just a reason to reach out. Intent, however, moves the conversation farther down the line, even from the starting point. Am I reading that right? Is that how you kind of approach it?

Brendan Hofferty: 33:02

Yeah, I think it's just, like, taking the… yeah, signals that you get can be different. I mean, we get all sorts of signals. We can have warm. If someone is attending a webinar like this, they would be considered a warm lead to us, where then another signal could be a website buyer, went from one company to another company. Maybe we had a previously engaged contact that was a user, and then went to a, yeah, another company again, or…Maybe someone got a promotion, and then we get that signal, and we want to reach out to them. There's a million different reasons, and a million different signals of why you'd want to actually reach out to an individual.

James Buckley: 33:35

I think the question we should all be asking ourselves in 2026 and beyond is. of the million signals that are coming at me pretty much every day, whether I'm going and finding them manually, or I have agents or skills that present them to me. How are they impacting my messaging? Whether I'm calling, or emailing, or reaching out on social, or creating videos, or sending voice notes, how are these signals impacting my messaging? So. Let's talk a little bit about that, because I want to know how you guys are managing this at ZoomInfo. Now, you've got Copilot, and now you've got this integration with ChatGPT, so this changes a lot of things about efficiency. Break this down for me, about smarter discovery questions before you pick up the phone, before you send an email. What does this look like for everybody?

Brendan Hofferty: 34:26

Yeah, I think we talked about it a little bit earlier, too, is, like, taking the AI abilities that we have and pairing that with the information that we have in our CRM as well. So what ZoomInfo does super, super well is we take first-party and third-party data, and we combine it all in one. So not only do we have specific, you know, signals for, the companies going across our website, but we can actually take different, like. information that we have from our notes, and have it actually prepare different questions that you can ask the individual. So, if we know that we met with you, James, two years ago, and pricing might have been an issue, we could have that information there, and then we can use that into relevant conversation. Hey, James, you know, obviously it's been a while since we've had some dialogue, would like to create a fresh conversation here. Understand that, you know, pricing might have been an issue in the past. Curious to know, like, what types of sales tools do you currently utilize today that helps you generate that revenue you guys were looking for when you met with us last time?

Brendan Hofferty: 35:22

So it's taking problems that we've seen before, creating different conversations that we can lead into a better discovery question.

James Buckley: 35:29

I do like that, and I want to point at the math here. The trigger, or signal, or intent you're seeing Formats the questions you're asking. That's an important relationship, right? I liken this to people that used to use… the college people went to as an opener. Hey, I saw you went to the University of Miami, Florida, down south. Hey, by the way, I've got this great data management tool completely detached from the college, right? The same thing happens if your signal is they just got funding, but then you're reaching out about your product that is, like, for finance. Right? Those… those things, not necessarily the same, right? You're assuming a lot when you make that. that jump. And I like this part of it, too. These, like, Come with the questions ready. not like an interrogation. I'm not saying you want them to feel like you're holding the light over their head. What do you know, right? Like, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying…

James Buckley: 36:26

do the due diligence, have your questions ready. If you're doing preparation before, are you using the same trigger? If you are, maybe that opening question is the same all day, because the trigger is the same all day. So be smart, and be efficient. This one comes from Anna D. I am an SDR. Throwing what we solve as their pain has always given an answer. Throwing what we solve as their pain has always given an answer. I don't understand that statement. We… we have that covered and got dropped. What's the best way to trigger without assuming things? Okay, so I think what you're asking, Anna, is…what's the best way to use a trigger without making assumptions that could land us in trouble? That's how I'm interpreting that, Anna. Please let me know if I got that right. Brendan, thoughts on that?

Brendan Hofferty: 37:15

Yeah, that's a… that's a good question. I think, going back to what we had said before of not accusing the individual based on a signal that you get, but using that in a conversation, right? So, you can say, hey, James, you know, I… I was on the ZoomInfo platform, and I actually saw a quick signal that, you had become the Vice President of Sales over here, coming from the V… or whatever sales manager. you made this jump. Congratulations on the possible new role, right? I would love to connect with you and see what priorities you have going into Q3 of next year. So you're taking something that you saw, you say, hey, again, you typically know that the signals are right, but you don't want to…

Brendan Hofferty: 37:53

infer that they definitely are 100% right. So, hey, I saw you might have got this promotion, congratulations on this new role here. Like, what kind of priorities do you have going into Q3, right now that ZoomInfo could probably help solve? Especially if you have the notes already in front of you that they were a pass easier, you can skip the, hey, do you know what ZoomInfo is or not? You can go right into the nitty-gritty of, hey, we already know you're familiar with us, how can we help you out today? How can we win your business?

James Buckley: 38:18

That's not bad, not bad. Ana or Anna, I will give you this. I have a one-two-step process for you that will work well, because I struggle with making assumptions. We assume that things are happening behind the scenes that we don't really know are true. So for me, I like to use the language of calling it out. I say things in writing and in calls, hey, I don't like to make ex- I don't like to make assumptions, but… and this is the other part, step two, typically what that means is, usually when I hear that, right, so you say, I don't want to assume too much, but when I hear that, it usually means this. Is that happening to you? how are you dealing with that? That flow works really well for me, whether on calls, or in messaging, written messaging, or even in voice notes. Works really well. I don't want to make assumptions here, you know, but this usually is the case. That flow is solid, so try that one out.

James Buckley: 39:08

Alright, this is a good one right here, and I want to know from you. Brendan, what is the best opener that you've ever heard from a rep that you coached or managed? Not your own.

Brendan Hofferty: 39:18

Yeah, I think there was someone that was on my team a while ago that loved to use, he just turned 26 this morning, and it stood out differently, and it worked. Now, there's a key thing that I coached him on, is like, hey, we're probably not gonna use this, when we're calling CEOs, because most CEOs aren't gonna care if it's your birthday or not, but if you're calling a lower-level sales manager, or even a director or something, that you like to say, hey, you know. I just turned 26 this morning, not looking forward to paying the insurance, but you gotta take the good with the bad. Maybe you get a chuckle, maybe you get a happy birthday, whatever. Make sure you update your LinkedIn, and make sure that your birthday isn't on LinkedIn, by the way, because he did get caught on that once. But yeah, that was a great opener. It kind of, you know, broke down the barrier a little bit, then you get into that conversation. So, I loved the birthday line, I thought that was really good.

James Buckley: 40:05

It's not bad. Birthdays, you know, I think people get a lot of birthday messages. If you can be the one birthday thing that stands out to somebody, you've really set a standard there for outreach on a birthday. It's hard to not get lost in the happy birthday messages with people, so if you've done that before in the past, you're doing a great job. Alright, here's a good one. If you had to remove a step from the typical SDR discovery process, something you think people can just let go of, just stop it. What is it? It doesn't work, it hurts them, it makes it so that it's hard for the people to feel attached. What's the thing they can let go of?

Brendan Hofferty: 40:39

Yeah, I think… I'm trying to…I mean, I do teach my reps to say, how familiar are you with ZoomInfo? I always, personally, I like to know, hey, like, do they have any familiarity? Can I skip the whole dog and pony show, or can I get right into it? But it's not necessarily something you need, right? There's some reps that don't even ask, and go into, you know, more discovery questions. Hey, this is, you know, James from ZoomInfo, how you doing? Good, and get right into it that way. So, if I was going to take any step out of my basic talk track that I teach people, you don't necessarily need to know if they're familiar or not, because they'll probably tell you that anyways.

James Buckley: 41:14

That's not bad, not bad. The one for me, and for this is probably for the newbies that are in the room, the veterans probably already know this, and if you've been to this show before, you've heard me say it, you can skip the My Name Is and I'm with and we do. Nobody cares. They're gonna ask you if they care. You're gonna earn that. So I think we can skip that in calls. You know, I go right into, is this this person? Great, let me tell you the reason I'm calling. Like, that's… that's the… that's the thing I try to get to really fast. So you can skip it. They'll ask you for it. You'll earn the right. They'll say, what's your name? Who are you with? And now you've earned it, right? Okay, last one. You talked about lying, but being willing… not lying, but willing to infer. We talked about making assumptions. Where's the line for you? How do I know the difference between an assumption and an inference?

Brendan Hofferty: 42:02

Yeah, I think this goes hand-in-hand with when you talk about referrals, right? So, if I just spoke to a vice president of sales, and I was able to get the referral path to a CEO, and, you know, we had a decent conversation, he wasn't looking to necessarily, create next steps, or didn't say, hey, the CEO wanted to definitely meet with us, but said we should, you know, give him a call, then great. You can fluff that up a little bit when you're on with the CEO, and say. Hey, I just spoke with James, you know, he told me to reach out to you. He seemed pretty interested in the conversation that we had, and said that you would be the right person to speak to. And kind of go from there. What you don't want to do is say, hey, I just spoke with James, he told me to set up a meeting with you tomorrow at 2 o'clock, he was super interested in this and said, like, you would be too, right? So you can say that he was interested and thought this might be a great idea to co-speak to you.

Brendan Hofferty: 42:52

But don't lie and take that. And vice versa, too. Like, I always started at the top, so if a CEO told me, hey, you should speak to the VP of sales, great. Fluff up, the CEO seemed pretty interested in what I had to say. He said I'd connect with you, but never be like, hey, your CEO told me to set up a meeting with you. That's where I would definitely draw the line.

James Buckley: 43:12

Alright, that's good. 30 seconds or less we've got. Talk to me, one thing you want everybody taking away from this show. They came away from this, they met you, and this is the one thing they're gonna remember forever.

Brendan Hofferty: 43:22

Yeah, I think just… stand out when you're making your cold calls, right? I love to use my funny little things of, hey, we're not fishing in the ocean, we're fishing a barrel. Hey, you know. the intent pitch of, it's like buying a new pair of shoes online, or if someone's trying to push you off and say, hey, this isn't something I need right now, I used to love to say, hey, I'm not looking to get married on the first date. I'm looking to have a brief intro conversation with you. Try to get a chuckle. If you can get a chuckle out of them on the call, you're gonna win that conversation way more than you would if you just have a blanketed speech that sounds robotic.

James Buckley: 43:56

It's like going on a blind date asking how many kids they want. Alright, thank you so much for joining me. Brendan, thank you for sharing your wisdom with our audience. Best audience in the world, I guarantee it. I want to thank everyone for spending time with me today. You're going to get a survey. Take part in it. Tell me what you liked about this, what you want to see more of. That's how we create the show. It's your feedback. Follow us, sellbetter.xyz. Make sure you connect with Behoff, right here in the chat. His link Go connect with him on LinkedIn, and I will see you guys when I get back from vacation, I guess on the 29th. Have a great day, everyone.